Poverty, hospitality and dignity

At the CMS Gather Day earlier this year, we sat down with pioneer MA graduate Rosie Hopley to hear about her own experiences of poverty from childhood to being a social entrepreneur.

The CMS Gather Day in March sought to listen to those with experience of poverty in order to learn some of the names and faces behind the numbers.

Transcript

So my connection to urban poverty is I’ve known it in my own life from when I was growing up in the north of England and that isn’t something actually that you leave behind completely.

I do think the places that we’re in and the spaces that we end up in, they shape us and they form us and while there were things that I was happy to leave behind I think actually there was something also deep within that really resonated with – actually, what does it look like to enable the people who you know are facing all kinds of difficulties and challenges and obstacles, how do we as a community make sure that we remove those obstacles?

How do we challenge that, you know, kind of how do we deal with kind of injustice and oppression and how do we do that in a creative way? So that’s what I’m feeling kind of really stirred up deep within these days.

I think it’s interesting actually I think God has made us to be emotional people and one of the things that I have found personally is that I’ve been being very stirred through anger and injustice and also through lament as well, because sometimes actually you just see the state of things around you and and you sit with that sorrow, but I think because deep down I’m quite a pioneer at heart I know not to get stuck in the lament – I can bring that to God but then think: Right, now what do we do?

And so I love actually turning kind of that passion and those emotions actually into action and joining in with either whatever else is going on around you or maybe sometimes actually something is given to you to start – and then others will join in with what you’re doing and you just go on this journey together as community.

So those are some of the things that I have noticed along the way.

I think hospitality and poverty can meet. There is a meeting place there and very interesting things actually happen I think in that meeting place, whether it’s hospitality that might be extended or received or shared in a massage parlour or brothel – I’ve seen I’ve seen the context of that – or hospitality, you know, as you cross into the threshold of somebody else’s home, you know you are received as the honoured guest and I’ve really enjoyed that where that’s happened, or equally actually receiving people into your own home as guests.

And then there also those third places, you know, restaurants or cafe bars or picnics, you know, kind picnics in a park – that can be a fantastic place of shared hospitality.

And again that’s something that I’ve seen whether it’s you know being with with women that I’ve met who have or currently work in the sex industry or you know perhaps people actually who have got experience of being trafficked or seeking asylum or people who are homeless.

There is always I think room for hospitality and shared hospitality as well.

I can give you an example of that. Once I was doing, I was asking some women in a parlour to help me with a piece of research and we were thinking of starting up a drop-in but I wanted ask what do you think, you know, when would be a good time to do it, you know, what would you actually want to see if we did do a drop-in? Do you think it’s a good idea or is it a rubbish idea? Just tell us what you think.

And as a thank you we gave a £10 gift card for whatever coffee chain – and it wasn’t much but it was something – and I then heard later that one of the women had used her gift card to take somebody else out for a coffee – a mutual acquaintance – and how it really dignified her that she could offer hospitality.

And I loved hearing about that because there is something about being host and guest, a power dynamic between that, and and you know thinking about Jesus, Jesus often was the guest of people or actually even also he would suggest to people: actually you’re going to be the host and we’re going to come and eat together in your home, and I just love that meeting of conversation and opportunity to see one another and to hear one another and actually love as well, cos love meets in the gap between these spaces and I just bear witness to that.

I think it’s important to actually speak with people who we are using that language about and ask them: you tell me what language would you use. So I think even about the the term ‘the poor’ and sometimes we might want to move away from that language because it makes us feel uncomfortable but the reality is ‘the poor’ as a term describes something that is actually happening and if we try and mess around with the language or massage the language in order to make some people more comfortable, I’d actually ask why are we doing that and in whose interest are we doing that?

So there have been times as I’ve said when I was growing up I was poor. I will own that language because it describes something that I went through and if I remove that language, well why would I do that? Is it to make some other people feel better and to you know maybe even assuage people’s guilt?

Well, I think we can be more imaginative and creative around our use of language but particularly we can also be brave in who we are actually conversing with – who’s invited into the conversation and why are they invited in and what do we actually want the outcome to be?

So what’s the point of doing a like today?

I hope it’s going to disturb some people and move some of us into action.

It might actually bring some of us to a point of repentance. It might also really encourage us just to remind us: where is Jesus? And we want to be where he is. And he often actually seems to be with people who are really grappling with poverty and if he’s there that’s where I want to be. And also it’s really comforting because I think, oh Lord, when I did know poverty as in – I’m talking particularly about financial poverty now – you were with me. You were with me.

So thinking about being a pioneer and how has this course been good for me? It’s been brilliant! It’s been absolutely fantastic.

I probably would have been a bit shyer about using the language of pioneer before I came on the course but the beauty of being in a learning space at CMS is it helped to give some language to my experiences and it helped to put a framework around that and I realized oh, I have been pioneering, oh, I have been doing intercultural ministry and cross-cultural mission.

I didn’t have the language back then but now I look back and think oh, okay, that’s what was going on and so… and I also know that you know, looking back I realize, oh I often seem to kind of come in, I spot some of the gaps, I get a bit agitated about it and I think okay what’s for me to either join in with or to get started.

And sometimes that might be something that starts off as a a short-term thing but what I’ve found is often that ends up being a longer term thing, other people join in and it may be that I then pass something on to somebody else to then take forward because, you know, I am increasingly recognizing that we get called into things for a season and I just want to be obedient, like Lord, I want to be where wherever it is that you call me to be, to do the good works that you have prepared for me and to join in with what you’re doing and what you’re having others doing as well and pioneering does seem to be a bit of a thread that that works through that and I’ve also loved actually being around other pioneers as well, it’s… CMS has been a place where I thought, oh, okay there’s other people that are – they’re doing this, that and the other and it feels a place of shared understanding and
actually place of hope as well, which is wonderful.

So when I grew up, I grew up as a cultural Catholic, schooled, and in my younger years, you know, going along to church but by the time I got to my teens I was in full-on rebellion against that and, you know, I was just going through stuff but I knew deep down I yearned to continue following God I didn’t quite know how to do it.

And then it was when I got to the age of 19 that I then had a really powerful encounter with God and actually was filled with the Holy Spirit and that then took my following Jesus to a different level. It it wasn’t about culture any more, it was about it was actually about capturing my heart and thinking Lord you’re the one I want to follow.

Okay, so thinking about the work of reconciliation which I’ve been particularly drawn into much more in recent years, you know, I love the fact that that God is a reconciling God. He draws people back into relationship with him and he pursues people as well.

And so I’m particularly interested in how do we as people in the body of Christ, how do we wrestle with the reconciliation with one another, you know, how do we see one another? How do we welcome one another? Actually, how do we do mission together?

And so I’ve been exploring that through some work with a group called the Reconciled Church group and I’ve written a course actually around reconciliation in the church. What do we do actually when we are in situations of conflict? And how do we see one another? What does it mean to, you know, repent, what does it mean to forgive? What does it mean to be joined into this ministry of reconciliation? That’s what scripture tells us that we have been given. And I think particularly for this day and age it’s increasingly important for the church to really get hold of that.

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